What If…? Wrestling Reinstated At The University Of Oregon

May 21st, 2008

Jay, here.

“Wrestling is too decent for today’s UO.”

Those are Michael Copperman’s words from “What Was Good”, published in last week’s online edition of the Eugene Weekly, regarding the elimination of wrestling at the University of Oregon.

And I’m going to take him at his word.

Actually, I’m going to do more than that. I’m going to promote those words from the rank of opinion all the up to general fact.

Although, the verbal battle over the elimination of the University of Oregon’s wrestling program has been waging for almost a year now, a fair amount of it taking place right here at Duck Sports News. And some good soldiers in support of wrestling have distinguished themselves on the DSN field of battle: Richard, Hank, Bob, David, Curtis, and Brian. These are dedicated men. So, I’m going to reward their opining, and others, recognize it as fact, and take them at their word, too.

Based on the essay of Mr. Copperman, and visitors to DSN, here’s what we know about current state of affairs at the University of Oregon, if we are to take them at their word. After surveying this list and believing everything to be true, I think you’ll agree with me that the wrestling program should not want to be reinstated at the University of Oregon in the immediate future.

Here are facts about the University of Oregon as Mr. Copperman, and some visitors to DSN, have stated them:

Fact #10: Athletics has compromised academics at the University of Oregon.

“It does seem to me that all things combined bespeak an insufficient dedication to the educational mission of the university, and a new way of doing business within the Cas Center that seems at odds with the values of our state. But this is much less the fault of donors than it is of leadership.”

Fact #9: The University of Oregon has misplaced priorities.

“Today’s UO is about towering billboards in Times Square and Verizon-sponsored scoreboards, about an Autzen of metal arcs and back-lit O’s and a new basketball arena sent from the future, about cherry-wood lockers and spiral staircases and winning at all costs.”

Fact #8: The University of Oregon is indifferent to Oregonians.

“I would like to present a few facts, then ask a couple of questions. U of O wrestling’s roster has 14 Oregonians out of 18 on the roster. Football (18 out of 99) and track (24 out of 68) are the only men’s sports with more Oregonians. Wrestling’s graduation rate the past three years has been 75%, 79%, and 89%. This ranks either one or two among all men’s sports at U of O, and much higher than the most recent U of O all-student graduation rate of 62%. As a state university, shouldn’t the U of O have an obligation to the residents of the state?”

Fact #7: University of Oregon fans are hateful. [Warning: graphic language.]

“I took the 11-year-old boy I mentored to an Oregon football game, where the drunken tailgaters beneath us chugged beer from cans in their coats and bellowed “Fuck that nigger!” when Dennis Dixon threw an interception. I began to wonder what sort of students chose a university for its football program. I began to wonder what had happened to the ideal of sport…”

Fact #6: The University of Oregon is fiscally irresponsible.

“Have you ever heard of a school turning down over 2.5 million dollars in donations? Have you ever heard of a school saying no to a facility that they don’t have to pay for? There is not a single reason why wrestling at Oregon needs to go. The wrestling community is commited to being self funded. The only thing the wrestling people ask of Oregon is to be called Ducks, and to represent the school. Is that asking too much?”

Fact #5: University of Oregon Athletics Director Pat Kilkenny is not ethical.

“It took Kilkenny only two weeks in his position to announce he was cutting wrestling in favor of baseball and cheerleading, and his justification was specious at best. Title IX compliance wasn’t an issue at the UO until Kilkenny reinstated baseball — in other words, the justification came from a situation he’d created. That there was no wrestling room is similarly circular — the beautiful, dedicated facility the wrestlers had in the Casanova Center had been claimed for football game day under an explicit promise from the AD that they’d soon get a nice, new place.”

Fact #4: University of Oregon Athletics Director Pat Kilkenny lacks integrity.

“The point is, the wrestling people have been quite honest with everything they’ve done and Kilkenny has been quite dishonest with everything he’s done and this has been proven time and time again. Maybe the Nike dollars are clouding a lot of outside people’s judgement on who is really running their athletic dept.”

Fact #3: The University of Oregon is indifferent to its student population.

“Three days a quarter I taught to an empty class, all my students in line for the football tickets the Athletic Department inexplicably released on weekday mornings. The classroom I taught in had broken moulding and flaking paint and was so small we couldn’t circle the desks, but Knight was giving $100 million for a new basketball arena. Football players I taught told me how their coaches had made them change their majors to communication — sociology and English were taking too much of their time and attention.”

Fact #2: The University of Oregon lacks integrity.

“The UO was never an unsullied ivory tower, free from the complications of the real world, but it has less integrity than ever before. It has become the Knight-Kilkenny nouveau-Vegas, a place of shiny surfaces and false heights, of short-skirted girls kicking bare legs high for the boys with the bucks.”

Fact #1. The University of Oregon administration can not be trusted.

“…I cannot tell you the contempt I feel for Dave Frohnmayer and Pat Kilkenny–as they pander to the sky-box, private jet, gromet dinners, donor lounges and big money interests–as they turn their backs and use the staff of the athletic department to disseminate bare-face mistruths to the faulty, students, athletes, donors, alumni, the press and to Senators and State Representatives. This complete disregard for the truth has already damaged the University of Oregon name– all over the country.”

If all of those statements are fact, it’s pretty ugly at the University of Oregon, right? But those are the facts, as the wrestling community sees them. And based on those facts, should the wrestling community want anything to do with the University of Oregon? Absolutely not. Would you? Would you entrust your child to that kind of institution? No way.

Here’s the big “What if…”:

What if last Wednesday when the University of Oregon announced the new Team Stunts & Gymnastics coach, they also made the surprise announcement that the wrestling program was being reinstated?

WRESTLING REINSTATED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF OREGON.

May 15, 2008.

As if this were some alternate timeline science-fiction novel written by Newt Gingrich, let’s go back to Mr. Copperman’s words:

“Little wonder wrestling is on the chopping block at the UO: It has become hard to reconcile the sport with the excesses of today’s Athletic Department.”

So, this is my question to wrestling supporters and the wrestling community: how would you reconcile the reinstatement of wrestling with these supposed systemic deficiencies at the University of Oregon?

Is Dave Frohnmayer’s retirement enough to turn things around? Will things get better after Kilkenny’s gone? Will wrestling simply survive as they did before and always do? Or is the University of Oregon that whore with a heart of gold who could only be redeemed by the transformative powers of the presence of the wrestling program back on campus?

After all the injustices you claim the University of Oregon has perpetrated on the wrestling community, why would you want to be back on campus?

And if everything you say is true about the leaders, personnel, students, fans, and the institution of the University of Oregon, why would you want to go back? More importantly, how would you go back? Are you really that forgiving?

University of Oregon football fans still talk about getting jobbed by the BCS in 2001. How would wrestling supporters treat this past year? Would the wrestling community all of the sudden develop Sammy Jankis-like short-term memory? Can’t remember anything from the previous day? The previous year?

This is a dilemma for wrestling.

The University of Oregon went nuclear with the elimination of the wrestling program. And wrestling supporters returned fire, going nuclear themselves.

So, how do wrestlers return after pursuing a path of mutually assured destruction, where one side survived?

At this point in time, and for the foreseeable future, I don’t see a path for their return.

And they may not see a path, either. If you know you’re going down in flames, why not take down some of the people who shot you down, too. Better to burn out than fade away?

Is the wrestling program too good for the University of Oregon? I don’t know about that.

But if everything I have read is true about the character of wrestlers, I’d say that wrestlers are probably too good for the rhetorical salvos coming out of their camp.

Before the firing of comments commences, here are few rules of engagement, some things you need to know.

I am not opposed to the reinstatement of wrestling. I just think it’s very unlikely under these, or any future, circumstances.

I don’t think the wrestling program was treated 100% fairly. Then, again, I don’t think the supporters of wrestling have been 100% fair with the University of Oregon, especially their treatment of Pat Kilkenny.

Through Duck Sports News, I have establish very friendly email exchanges with several supporters of wrestling, including Hank and David.

Actually, one of the supporters I’m on friendly terms with (up until this post), Riverside Pirate Wrestling Coach Richard Rockwell, invited me to a wrestling tournament at Willamette High School in Eugene, a little over a month ago. And I took him up on that invitation. What I saw at my first wrestling tournament was a family-oriented sporting event centered around a lot of very talented and dedicated young men. I also had a good conversation with Richard regarding the issues facing wrestling.

But much like this current situation with Oregon wrestling, I saw a bad break. No more than ten feet in front of me, one of the best wrestlers broke his arm in competition. And, boy, was is bad. Let me put it this way, when he tried to lift his arm, it was like Jello.

Richard wasn’t there to witness this minor setback. But when he sat down and I told him what had happened, he replied, “He’s a tough kid. He’ll be back.”

The Oregon wrestling community has suffered a number of bad breaks (not including the elimination of ASU’s program). They’re tough. And they’re going to be around. But I don’t think they’re coming back.

And if you listen to them, I’m not sure I would want to be back.

Now, unleash the hounds of war.

[Jay, here. We've got our spam filters set on a pretty high level. So, it might take a bit for your comments to make it on the site. Thanks for your patience.]

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THE CONVERSATION

wheaton4prez Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 1:28 pm

Great article. I thought that it was a bad decision to cut wrestling and I hope that they seriously re-consider. But, the people speaking out for wrestling really aren’t doing anyone any favors.

“But if everything I have read is true about the character of wrestlers, I’d say that wrestlers are probably too good for the rhetorical salvos coming out of their camp.”

Perfectly said.
Samurhino Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

I certainly don’t consider myself a hound of war but one brief comment I would like to make is this: why does every argument against the UofO athletic department assume some sort of finite pool of possible money for academics and athletics that the athletic department is taking way more than their share of? Phil Knight has donated a lot of money to the UofO and Stanford and a huge portion has gone to academics. As long as the AD is self supporting and drawing no revenue from the general fund the academics should be singing their praises. As long as the popularity of Oregon athletics continues to sell the school positively impacting enrollement and tuition increases the academics should be singing their praises.

I realize this is a bit off topic but I get so sick of comments about how glitzy the athletic department is while classrooms paint peels. If you want more money do what the AD does and go get it.

Now on to the topic at hand. I’m all for wrestling coming back…or not…I would’ve liked to have seen this handled better but overall I don’t care much. I will go watch baseball games whereas I have no interest in watching wrestling. I know its not all about me and wrestlers are amazing athletes but from my standpoint it just seems like a dying sport.

I appreciate how passionate the wrestling community is but I think the decline of wrestling is inevitable and that has nothing to do with the UofO.
AG Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Lol you spent way too long typing that.. Find something interesting to write about.
TheFangjack Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm

Sure Division 1 universities have out of whack priorities. The argument is that successful team = higher enrollment = academic benefit. If true, an indictment of society, but not an argument for keeping wrestling. There should be no reason academically why any university money should be spent on sports. If you want to play, pay.

Sure there are drunk people at football games. Four hours on hard benches with 15 minutes of action interspersed, some can’t handle without the booze. A few seasons ago drunk OSU fans at Autzen mimicked and made fun of an elderly lady as she struggled up the stadium steps. But OSU has wrestling? Too good for OSU also? OSU cut track and field, and has no lacrosse. Are those sports too good for OSU?

I’ve heard the refrain that eliminating wrestling will deprive students of their opportunity to wrestle. Nonsense. Form a wrestling club. Men’s soccer, rugby, ultimate are all club sports, to name a few. An argument could be made for adding any of them as a sport ahead of wrestling. Not to mention swimming and gymnastics, sports that were already cut at Oregon. Many more Oregonians play soccer, swim and play ultimate than wrestle, I wager. Few fans watch wrestling, and Oregon has had little success in the sport of late.

I might not have added baseball if I were Kilkenny, but I might have cut wrestling and added one of the other sports. Our climate is not conducive to spring baseball, and baseball never drew well here.

The seemingly endless whining from some wrestling supporters is sad. Get over it. Take your mats and go home, but please gather yourselves and accept this tragic loss with some dignity.
Not right Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pm

not so fast on ASU! that will make uo look even worse in this whole deal.
jake Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 3:22 pm

Fangjack,
It’s not whining, it’s called fighting for your sport. Wrestling is a popular sport in Oregon. Do you know for sure that more people play soccer and swim, or are you just assuming?

Plus, don’t make pathetic excuses for the idiots who drink and make rude remarks. That was pretty lame on your part.

Your comment, you want to pay, play shows that your thinking skills don’t match a 12 years old. Oregon is a state funded school. Taxpayers have a say in the school since their $$ is being used for it.

Use your brain please before you speak, or have some facts, it will make you look less stupid.
Travis Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 3:31 pm

You sound like a Snobbish, Democratic, Elitist, Jurnalistic, Reporter; Who doesn’t understand the long term benefits of wrestling and doesn’t really care. Lets assume for the sake of Hounding, as you put it, that my interpretation of your writings is truth. You are 100% correct that wrestling will not be coming back to the UofO next year and maybe never. I see it thriving in certin communties as a club sport for all ages and being privately funded.
Travis Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:00 pm

Sorry, hit the wrong button.
The only point I hear you make is that wrestling is unpopular and was going away already. The rest of you article was jibberish aimed at the wrestling fan who has been triing to make sence of the decision from day one.
You go to a wrestling match and the only thing you have to report is a broken arm. You don’t understand it so you show the participants no respect. The fact that you don’t understand it and will not do your research to understand it only minimizes any comment you have on it and reflects on your journalistic abilities.
Your Right!! We(the wrestling community ) are mad as HELL!!) and rightfully so. Our arguments are as baseless as the reasons given to us by the administration. We are not flashy and popular and never have been and never will be. That does nothing to deminish the benefits an individual can gain from participating in the sport.
Reminds me a lot of Math. It isn’t flashy and a lot of people don’t like it very well. They know and understand the benefits but, don’t care to work at it. But, it can be very beneficial if you are good at it.
Jay Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pm

Travis -

Thanks for the comment.

If you only knew…Your assessment of me is a little off.

I’m not a journalist or a reporter. But I do understand the long term benefits of wrestling. And I do care.

I’d like to see wrestling back at Oregon. Schools should be adding sports, not cutting them. But wrestling doesn’t do itself any favor with each of these opinion pieces that come out.

And, yes, I’m sure it will continue to thrive in certain areas. I just don’t know what the future of it is in Oregon.

Jay
DSN
Jay Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm

Travis -

One more thing: I understand supporters of wrestling are mad. And that’s my point. Would that anger go away if wrestling was reinstated?

Jay
DSN
Jay Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Travis -

And another quick thing: are any of those “fact” I list inaccurate? Is that how you see the U of O?

Jay
DSN
Travis Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:20 pm

If we had to buy our way back in as it was put to us, then yes, we would hold some resentment and be looking over our shoulder.
You are asking the wrong person for facts. I only know what the Administration has told us. You have the same facts as I do. Those facts seem keep changing. Except that the team has no home and no future in Kilkenny’s plan.
Wrestling, has not changed
Travis Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:44 pm

The guy that knows more than anyone of us has a GAG Order put on him by Mr. Kilkenny. That person would be coach Chuck K. We can argue all day about how foolish the Administration has acted and how childish wrestling fans have reacted.
We could argue all day about who was behind all these (Baumgartner, Kilkenny) poor decisions, and if they had a personal vendetta or not.
That won’t get us anywhere. We are talking about reaching Athletic/Academic excellence and we now have in State youth that are losing opportunities.
Hey, let’s go find some illegal immigrants and pay for their education instead.
Richard Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 5:08 pm

That was a good write up Jay.

For the people that don’t understand why this sport is not only so important to Oregon, but to today’s society, I’ll explain.

Wrestling is a blue collar sport. Always has been. Wrestling is about who works the hardest will have the most success. Wrestling builds character. Wrestling is the one sport that best prepares our youth for the real world.

Wrestling teaches our youth to work hard for their goals, work hard at their education, work hard o ntheir jobs, work hard at their relationships and work hard on their family life.

Wrestling teaches that there are no easy roads to success. When you win in wrestling, there is no one but yourself to high five. When you lose, there is no one else to blame but yourself. There’s no one to screen, no one to block and no one to point fingers out when success isn’t met. It truly teaches you that you are in control of your own destiny.

This is something that today is frowned upon. Parents today would rather their kids not be met with defeat and are quick to give everyone a ribbon just for showing up. In wrestling, this is unheard of. People can’t handle this type of sport, so they are quick to throw their kids into a sport where if they aren’t the most gifted athlete or don’t work hard, they can hide amongst the team and still get that participation ribbon.

This in no way resembles real life. Real life is tough. This is why this sport thrives in the many rural areas of Oregon because those areas are all about hard work and not taking the easy road to success.

Now, of course there are many who simply don’t understand that and don’t care to because they’ve never truly been exposed to the sport. Thus, the reason why I invited Jay to the state tournament. So, he could have a little idea of what I speak of, but that was merely a taste.

Yes, wrestling would be grateful to come back to UO, even with its supposed shortcomings, simply because it deserves its chance to thrive just like any other sport does. If anything, if re-instated, the wrestling program would use that as an opportunity to show why the sport is so badly needed at the college and use it as a teaching tool to current UO students.

Regardless of what people’s personal opinions are, wrestling has been given a very bad shake on this deal and a lot of it has to do with the lies that are being told by Kilkenny and others in the athletic dept.

Yes, wrestling will be back at the college. Maybe not next year or the following year, but eventually it will be back.

BTW, that kid who broke his arm, shook it off and and was back on the mat within a month. Wrestlers by no means will let a broken arm stand in the way of their goals.
Jay Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 5:22 pm

Richard -

Good hearing from you. And thanks for the comment.

Also, glad to hear that kid is doing well. I didn’t have any doubt he’d be back at it as soon as possible.

And I hope your team is doing well.

Jay
DSN
Richard Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 5:49 pm

Thanks. Our team is doing well and still working hard at it because that’s all they know. Got six of those kids you met, qualified and attending Nationals this summer.

I welcome anyone to another tournament in the years to come if you really want to understand why UO, as well as other colleges, need the opportunity to compete at the college level.
Jim Brown Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Wrestling has been a part of education for 2,500 years, Socrates said, “I swear it by Zeus that an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler”. His most famous student, Aristocles, was renamed Plato because of his broad wrestling stance. Noble laureate, Dr Norman Borlaug, who is credited with saving billions from starvation, has frequently said that the most influential educator in his life was his high school wrestling coach.

Like all who are too lazy to read and understand history, the negative comments come from those that do not know that Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, John Irving, Ken Kesey, Dr Borlaug, William Howard Taft, Carl Albert and George Washington (among many, many others) all wrestled.

The University of Oregon is failing its’ core constituency - the taxpayers of Oregon - by eliminating these participation opportunities for a significant segment of Oregon high school student-athletes.

Reinstate Oregon wrestling now.
Ducksinarow Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 6:18 pm

The simple fact in my opinion as well as others here, is that I would rather going to a soccer, swimming or ultimate frisbee event than watch a wrestling match. The archaic sport of wrestling is a dying breed, not many people want to watch guys in unitards with cauliflower ears, sweating and rolling on a mat. Unless of course they, are wrestlers themselves or the family members of those wrestlers. Our capitalist country is all about supply and demand, and since even the most drawn out boring baseball game will attract 100 times the spectators as a wrestling match, it is time to cut the cord on a sport that promotes violence and aggression. Sure wrestlers can kick my ass, and based on my comment here, many probably will want to but I am tired of this argument and my guess is that even if wrestling was self supported, most people still wouldn’t want it to take up space and facilities on campus.
Alumni Wrestler Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

There really is no way around it, wrestling got a raw deal at the UO. The kids of the state and the current athletes in the program got a raw deal. This decision was filled with and fuled by deceit, dishonesty, and underhanded tactics. One main underlying factor is not if the sport is everyone’s favorite or not, Kilkenny and Baumgartner included,there are many sports that are not well attended and revenue producing on that campus and many others all around the nation. Wrestling supporters were leary of such a decision coming down several months before the ax was actually dropped. They were totally put off by the administration, and told there was nothing to worry about. Maybe, just maybe the 3 million plus that Finley and co. have raised could be more by now if they had been given a chance and not been kept in the dark. Kilkenny stated that it was a money issue, due to changing trends and wrestling not being fashionable, and Title 9. Title 9 has been thrown out by people who have more expertise in that area than a former insurance man…..doubt those experts were consulted in the first place, but he made a decision and used it as a scapegoat. Fashionable, trends? Wrestling is huge at the high school and youth levels in this state! Is it less fashionable than softball? I think it is a fine game as well, my daughters will probably play it and I went to quite a few games when I was a student at the university. But the facts will show that 230 people and change watched the Civil War game a week or so ago. Man, you mean people are not just knocking down the gates of Howe Field to get in there? The Ducks have a pretty fair team too. I wonder what attendance would be like if they were not any good. Are they a revenue producing program? No. Not many sports are at the D 1 level. They are still worthy however. What is our obligation to all these fine young people from this state? It (wrestling) certainly is as fashionable in terms of participation and fans as lacrosse, which by the way is not a sanctioned sport at the HS level in Oregon. What was the overall attendance at UO lacrosse this past year? What will it be for cheer? Does it matter? Again, keep all the women’s sports, just don’t punish the boys, for being boys and blame it on T9 when it is not. Money?? The money has been raised to provide 3-5 years of program budget right now as we speak. And a start to one hell of an endowement, probably better than most all sports at the UO. Certainly there has to be a vendetta here. If not, why would Pat K tell the Statesman Journal that it did not matter if 20 million was raised, wrestling was not coming back? Vendetta by someone. To answer Jay: yes we would take it back. We would probably bury the hatchet for the most part and take the program back,it should have never been gutted in the first place. We would still believe that the whole mess should not have happened, but we would take it back. It is the right thing to do. Not for me, or fellow alumns. Although we would be happy. But for the kids of this state and the guys in the program that wronfully are being kicked to the curb. Just think about the notion of Oregon being up front, innovative, on the CUTTING EDGE. Doesn’t seem like a school who should be eliminating opportunity does it? I say when times get tough and programs are being looked as possible cuts, let’s look at top heavy departments, with maybe too many people making too much money. Maybe tighten a belt or two. Administrators need to remember what business they are in and why they got into it. They are in the sport business, athletics! What good is the business if the sports are gone? It is supposed to be about the kids, the athletes and competition and everything gained out of it. Not martini lunches and golf games for the fat cats.
Ducksinarow Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 6:36 pm

Richard, you could substitute the name of any other sport in your long comment and say the same thing about it. When an individual strives for excellence in whatever they do, they achieve discipline, self respect and how to succeed in many avenues of life. If anything you could say that team sports teach individuals to work together to strive for something bigger than themselves. A lesson that I think would be important to most people of the world, since todays world (though mostly in our country) people tend to only think of themselves and their own welfare. Not even stopping to consider how their ‘freedoms’ and lifestyles impact the rest of the planet. Individuality and success is great, unless that success is from climbing on the backs of others or pinning them down so that one person can rise above the rest.
Richard Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 6:58 pm

Violence and agression? Have you not seen a football game, a basketball brawl or when a baseball player charges the mound before? Or how about a soccer fan brawl? If that’s your sole arguement, you better cut the cord on those also.

Fact is, wrestling isn’t for everyone. However, why should only the football, b-ball and baseball folks have all the fun at the college level and receive and education while doing it? Not everyone is build the same. To be a successful athlete in those three sports, you need to be a certain height or weight.

Wrestling can truly say that its a sport for “everyone.” A 5′3″, 98lb athlete has a chance to be great at our sport. He doesn’t have to go up against the 6′5″ 300lb lineman. Granted the wrestling types will still face the challenge, but what are the chances of success? What are their chances if they truly love those three sports to go on to college and compete for a team? Not very likely. However, with wrestling they can.

Why disciminate because that’s what this issue comes down to? UO and colleges like it are discriminating against certain types of athletes. They are saying only a certain type of athlete is welcome at their school. The rest aren’t welcome. That’s wrong.

And your statements about baseball numbers being 100 times greater is simply an uneducated statement. Tell that to the 15,000 plus who show up for duals in the midwest. Or even the 4400 who showed for a dual at UO this year.

And just because wrestling isn’t your cup of tea, doesn’t mean it isn’t for others.

Also, supply and demand? Wrestling the 6th most popular sport in the nation. Way more than water polo, tennis, swimming, lacrosse, golf, bowling, cross-country, crew and hockey. Wrestling outnumbers these sports by at least 100,000 or more participants with the exception of x-cross country. It outnumbers it by 40,000.

Wrestling has been on a growing trend in the US for the past decade and growing more and more. NYC recently started a new inner city funding program strictly for wrestling and has increased numbers in NYC alone by 3500 kids in 4 short years.

So, really if in fact the sport continues to grow and is in fact the 6th most popular sport in the nation, shouldn’t the colleges be all about “supply and demand,” as you suggest?
Brian Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Ducksinarow,
Can you tell me when the fan became more important than the student athlete? I always hear about what the fan wants. Can anybody please tell me when the casual fan became more important than the athlete. Does the mission statement of the Duck athletic department mean anything, or is it just words to piss on by the AD? Wrestling is not a dying breed. It is one of the fastest growing youth sports in the country, and the sixth most participated sport in US high schools. Former ASU coach Leroy Smith recently said wrestling is not a dying sport, it’s being murdered. It’s being murdered by misguided greedy AD’s who funnel all the money to the golden boy sports. Oregon needs to keep wrestling to produce future coaches to teach the young people who are there, and want to learn. Oregon needs to keep it’s promise to the wrestlers, and needs to take it’s mission statement to heart. As far as all the glitz and glamour that is now the university of Oregon, a wrestler could care less. A wrestler just wants to compete against the best. A wrestler can tape his own fingers, and ankles. He doesn’t need the soothing sounds of an indoor waterfall to mend his body. A bag of ice will do the trick.
Keel Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:10 pm

Why do so many non-wrestlers think wrestling is a dying sport? It is reported as the 6th most popular sport in US High Schools and the numbers are growing compared to other sports. Arkansas just added wrestling as a sanctioned sport in it’s high schools. MMA (fed heavily by NCAA wrestlers) is THE up and coming pro sport and is not going anywhere but up in ratings.

Why do wrestling people want wrestling reinstated at OU? Because they believe it should be offered at every D1 school in the nation, regardless of how well run the school is. Because it is the most difficult sport when you compare high school graduates that would like to compete in college and the number of available scholarships.
jake Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:44 pm

ducksinarow…

you are a moron if you think wrestling promotes violence. That’s an ignorant viewpoint.

Aggression is taught in all sports. I doubt you play any sports at all. Are you the guy who got hurt in jr. high that wrote that article about wrestling? Probably are!

You are ignorant about the sport, so don’t comment on it.

If you ever want to talk about it in person let me know, I will show you that we aren’t violent, but articulate people who can kick your ass not only on the mat, but in a debate also.
Your School.... Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:48 pm

You can sum up Oregon in the world of higher education right now in one statement:

Your athletic director did not graduate from college.

You can’t teach at Oregon without a degree. You can’t coach without a masters. You can’t head up a simple department without a doctoral degree. You can run Oregon athletics with nothing but your hand down Phil Knight’s pants.

Just remember this, if they cut this program they’ll cut again. Don’t anticipate that the cuts could make sense, the firings in the future could make sense, or that the department will take good care of what you care about there. You clearly are not all an Oregon family if you’d let someone’s marianette puppet assassinate one of your family members.

You don’t need higher education to understand the fundamental lesson from history in that if you fail to take action, it will either repeat itself or take you down. That’s a high school lesson where I come from. This is a high school level article, soaking wet in the bloated, self-righteous and egocentric babble that you’d expect from someone worrying about what note they’d pass to Suzy in gym class, or from some jagoff wanna-be that also had their hand down Phil Knight’s pants. I’m surprised the writer had a hand free, as it’s pretty clear whose pants his hand is down. Bud, keep one free.

It’s easier to type that way.

Don’t like me? Like Oregon? Don’t brag it up. I only have a Bachelors Degree, but at one of the nation’s premiere athletic departments, I’m overqualified and I’m wearing a belt.
jm Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:50 pm

Ducksinarow,
Where are the statistics that point toward wrestling and violence? If you make such accusations you should support them with statistics verse other sports to support your claims. How many college football players are arrested every year? Is this a result of putting pads on, hitting each other and promoting violence?
As far as a declining sport, you are wrong. Statistics show the amount of participants competing in the sport of wrestling has steadily increased and is currently the 6th most participated in with over 251,000 high school males competing.
As far as having 100 times the amount of fans in the stands I would like to see this. Solid college baseball teams have a hard time putting a couple thousand people in the seats. I am sure UO had more then 20 in the stands most of the time.
If you are going to attack a sport at least use facts.
Cal Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:52 pm

I copied this (hope that is ok) as it reflects what many athletes feel but are less able to articulate.

This is a copy of a letter sent by Kenny Moore, Olympian, author, and writer for Sports Illustrated. This letter was sent to the Administration at the University of Oregon in regard to the announcement of the dropping of Oregon Wrestling at the end of this season. This is printed with Kenny’s permission.

I am Bill Bowerman’s biographer, he having hammered in the lessons that let me run two Olympic marathons. As well, I have written for SI since 1971, covering everything from Bill Walsh to sumo. After a life studying sports, I know none performs the primary act of higher education-transforming a savage heart-better than wrestling. Few come close.

When you wrestle, you are part of a culture as ancient as humanity. Washington and Lincoln were wrestlers. Ulysses S. Grant and Norman Schwartzkopf were wrestlers. Plato was a wrestler, and Ken Kesey. It’s a vast brotherhood, a family, and therefore universal. I guarantee you that it will be wrestlers who open the door back into Iran or Cuba, not the Marines.

Wrestling has never been widely popular because most people aren’t up to it, and never will be. Watch a practice. Maniacally straining pairs make the mat squeal and pop with explosive takedowns and reversals. A hold slips and a face takes a stunning elbow. When time is called, the most brutal bursts conclude with reassuring little pats. No harm intended. Understood.

I can’t watch that delicate control of human aggression and not see the moment-by-moment affirmation of civilization. That is the self-command we honor as the highest achievement of college sport.

The struggle says my friend Bobby Douglas, the 1992 U.S. Olympic coach, is to keep the spirit of wrestling alive so dynamic, combative, disciplined people can find a safe haven. We can’t compete with football or basketball in sponsorship money, but we do in the men we produce.

I’m not telling you anything don’t know. All I can add is my personal feeling about what makes Oregon great. One is that its coaches are teachers in the mode of Bowerman, and so worshipped by the young all over the state.

6000 Oregon high school boys wrestle. Most are from small towns. The finest have always yearned to be a Beaver or Duck. If wrestling isn’t saved, they won’t be molded by men such as Finley and Chuck Kearney, but they will owe their allegiance elsewhere, and it will be a ferocious loss.

Not only that, since wrestlers are our best ambassadors, since wrestlers are going to open Iran or Cuba, (being the living refutation of the arrogant, spoiled ugly American), we should make sure it is Oregon wrestlers who have that high honor. They are better at diplomacy than the college of international relations.

I don’t have a full appreciation of your Title IX problems, but I know the math dictates that each men’s sport’s participant must be roughly balanced by a women’s one.

Which suggest a Bowerman approach. He always said “Over solve a problem if you can”. He solved the overcrowded department offices with a whole new building. One over-solution would be not cutting men’s wrestling but adding women’s wrestling.

I would hope that the majestic Knight Legacy gift has already jolted the department into finding a way to save wrestling. If not, I ask you to consider whether the department and the University can afford a financial saving that is achieved at such moral cost, the loss of a truly great legacy, a truly Olympian sport.

Kenny Moore
Kevin F Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 9:03 pm

Thanks for the article. I’d guess the wrestling community would welcome the reinstatement, afterall it is something that should be in place for the youth of the state. Despite some of the comments, wrestling is a very popular high school sport and continues to grow. One staple point that needs to be remembered is that in education you should always do what’s best for the kid(s). Cutting the program isn’t what’s best for the kid(s) of Oregon.
I like the comment about the broken arm. Athletes are seriously injured in all sports, do we want to cut football because there are injuries?
My head’s spinning with various thoughts and it’s way too late but one last thought.
You spoke of Title IX. Although it seems it wasn’t a big factor in Oregon’s decision, there’s little debate that it has been a factor in many wrestling (and other Olympic sports) programs being cut. My question is why there’s not a big push by people to have the Title IX sanctions be held up to what they were originally intended….ALL PROGRAMS…not just sports. Take a look at your schools, are the drama departments, english departments, science departments all in compliance? Why does the government just go after the sports programs? The only programs being regulated are the sports programs….huge injustice that gets no publicity.
duck1fan Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 9:03 pm

ducksinarow- You must of been a basketball or tennis player. I remember your type in highschool and college! Clean cut and just big smack talkers because usually you grew up in a house with one other sibling and given everything to you on a silver spoon!!You stated that wrestling promotes violence?? If that’s the case, what does football do promote free love? I respect different points of views as long as you bring good analogies to the table! Don’t get me wrong, sometimes a sport needs to go away for a few years to remind everyone to not take it for granted. Also make sure the community is vocal about bad hiring decsions (Chuck Kerney) that eventually give the athletic department justification to get rid of the program. I know this subject has been beaten into the ground but traditionally oregon has a strong breeding grounds for college wrestlers. What your essentially saying is that we should tell all of those talented kids to go elsewhere for there college experience! Why don’t you step out of your frat boy way of looking at things and think about what’s best for the community! This sport might not get as big a following as baseball(which I’m happy to see back) but what sport is higher in respect then wrestling? When someone comes into your office and on there resume it says they were a division one wrestler compared to a division one basketball or football player, who would you think would be more productive and harder worker? It’s like comparing someone that was in the Marine Corp compared to all other armed forces!! There is no comparison!!
ISUwrestling Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 9:37 pm

Ducksinarow said: “It is time to cut the cord on a sport that promotes violence and aggression.”

Like football?
fatfreddy Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 9:49 pm

Why wrestling? Give us your poor, slow, short, small, fragile and scared, and we will return to you a confident, self respecting winner.

A middle school wrestling coach.
dawg4life Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 10:26 pm

Wrestling is the most boring and worthless sport on the entire planet. Honestly, I’d watch the caber toss over wrestling any day. I really am shocked that a whole 50 people still show up to watch a match. I used to laugh at all my friends who were fans of Oregon sports; that is, until they cut their wrestling program. It is a pity too because I used to love how embarrassed they were about it. Not only was it the most worthless sport in the existence of humanity, Oregon was horrible at it. Didn’t they finish dead last in the conference? Even if they were the best team in the nation, what would that mean? “Congratulations! Your team just won the national championship (does wrestling even have one? lets pretend it does) at the collegiate level of wrestling! How do you feel?” “I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over the 90 fans that showed up today”

Seriously, all those who are fans of wrestling, find something to do with your life.
truth seeker Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 10:52 pm

Yo Dawg- the NCAA Championships draw 90,000 plus. If you don’t like it that is fine. I don’t follow every sport myself. But at least get some facts pal. The sport is one of about 4 championship events that MAKE MONEY in the entire NCAA. Ignorance is not a good thing bud. Pull your head out of the sand.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 11:23 pm

Very well written and thought encouraging Jay!

A number of people who have commented used fan base as a criterion for sport viability at the U. of O. I have attended U of O x-country, baseball and wrestling events with my sons for many years. (I competed in all three sports in my youth).
Only a few Oregon baseball games outdrew fans at the average wrestling match and very few fans attended the x-country runs that we attended.
My point is this: these are great sports for the student athletes. Fan base has nothing to do with any decision to sponsor the sport at the U of O. U of O men just won a 2007 NCAA National Championship without fan base. Shall we drop men’s x-country because there are too few Californians on the team and too few spectators?

Athletics are about student growth, development, learning and our culture.. Fan base has only to do with paying the bills for the athletic program. This is the only reason that football and men’s basketball are more important than x-country, baseball and wrestling. They pay the bills.

Wrestling is not a dying sport. It is a growing sport, a hard working sport in a soft culture. It is similar to x-country in terms of the work required to be competitive but wrestling is far more technical than x-country. I will gather the Oregon High School data and offer it here for those who might be believing some of the misinformation stated by our posters. Here from my tiny brain is the top 6 boys sports in Oregon by number of participants (I think maybe): 1. Football, 2. Boys Basketball, 3. Boys Track & Field 4. Soccer 5. Baseball 6. Wrestling. As I recall # 4, 5 and 6 are close in total participation. I will check and repost. There are not very many swimmers in Oregon, probably because there are fewer indoor swimming pools.
The attendance at the 2008 NCAA Wrestling tournament exceeded 94,000. None of the 6 sessions had less than 13,000 fans and sportsmen in attendance.
David Gillaspie Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 11:25 pm

If you liked the family atmosphere of the Willamette tournament, take in a little guy tourny next year. The Gandmas and Grandpas are still young enough to get into it with the moms and dads, and they all circle the mats. It’s a rowdy three generational day.

When those little guys go to a college match and see grown men doing the same things they try to do, a dream begins. You witness that dream at middle school tournaments and novice meets. A kid doing something that turns out right for the first time is the spark of life. That’s a good thing for everybody.

The University of Oregon deserves wrestling, and wrestling deserves UO. You always need more scrappers on campus. If you need anymore proof that Duck wrestling is important to wrestling in the state, look no further than Crater.

A check of the records show Crater has punished everyone in the state for years. Their guys are Oregon State guys, but they chose Oregon. If the Red Raider national champions coaching Crater think enough of Oregon to get their guys in, then it ought to be enough to say how much pull UO wrestling has. It’s no mistake the most recent Duck national champ was a Comet.

Does Michael Copperman believe in the land of the free and the home of the brave? Oh yes. He’s got a pair. This is the voice that rings true to the experience of wrestling in Oregon. If you’ve met John Scott, then you know.
Mr. Nelson Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 1:41 am

I love this quote from Ducksinarow:

“…it is time to cut the cord on a sport that promotes violence and aggression. ”

I agree!

Let’s get rid of football.
kyle Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 4:37 am

Well if wrestling can be personally funded why can they not have a team? Title IX but the athletic department has so much money from football, Nike, revenue & apparel sales would it hurt to add another female sport as well. Wrestling is not a dying sport, but division 1 universities are trying to kill it, just a matter of time. Winning is everything for most universities, so if your program isnt at the top of national rankings, your program gets cut. Horrible way to deal with the oldest and greatest sport in the world! Wrestling is still alive!!!!!
als96 Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 6:06 am

I think what this article misses is that the reason there has been so much outrage is not because of an intense dislike of UO, but because many of these people love UO and many other people love the sport of wrestling.
Similar to when a child has done wrong, the parent chastizes him, not because the parent feels the child is a bad person, but because the parent feels the child has the potential to be a great person and wants the child to strive to that greatness.
Do I believe that the hard feelings will go away if OU wrestling was reinstated? Yes, for the most part. There are people who hold grudges longer than they should, but I believe, or at the very least I hope, that if UO wrestling were reinstated that the program would work hard towards being everything it can be and doing everything it needs to do to prove itself as a program worthy to be kept around.
Jay Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 7:47 am

als96 -

Thanks for the comment.

I understand your point. But I’m not sure Mr. Copperman loves the U of O anymore, for several of the “facts” as I listed above. He might have at one point. But as notes, the U of O has changed.

Would the wrestling program accept their reinstatement? Sure. But those are some pretty harsh feelings they would have to deal with, if true.

This situation is like getting fired. You accuse your boss, company of some really bad stuff. How would you act on the job if you were rehired considering you don’t trust your boss or company?

That seems like a bad situation. Sure, you’ve got your job back. But is it a job you really want to have?

Thank again.

Jay
DSN
Richard Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 8:02 am

Great comments by everyone. All the more reason to continue to try and save the program.

Wrestling people are passionate about their sport, as you can tell. This fight will never stop until the program is saved.
Richard Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 8:16 am

I think if the program was re-instated, of course the wrestlers would always be looking over their shoulders. Mainly from the admin and not from its fans or students.

However, it won’t change how these guys will work to be successful, as they are used to constant dislike. But, in a situation like this, you’d think wrestlers would just quit, give up and go to some other sport. But they don’t.

Why?

Is it because they are cut from a different mold that others can’t accept? Is it because they don’t care what others think about their sport? They just want to compete and be successful. No different than any other sport.

Yet the sport continues to grow at the HS and youth levels, year after year.

Crazy thought, but not everyone is a football, b-ball or baseball player. Some people are just made to be a wrestlers. And a lot of made to be UO wrestlers. They just need a program to go to.

One comment that still rings in my head from the very beginning of all this, is when Kilkenny came to my home town (near where he grew up), he was met with some protesters. Some young kids, mad about the program, we out protesting because that was the school they wanted to attend. As Kilkenny walks into the building, he sees the young guys and instead of being moved by their courage to stand up to this injustice, he says “you guys can go somewhere else.” With tears in his eyes from the harsh words, the youngest guy says “I wanted to go to UO and you stole my dream.” Kilkenny didn’t bat an eye.

These wrestlers shouldn’t be forced to “go somwhere else” because of one uneducated decision.
als96 Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 8:22 am

Not knowing who Michael Cooperman is I just looked him up. He is a writer, a native of Eugene, OR, a man who once attended UO wrestling camps as a boy and wrestled for Stanford in college. He is currently working at UO as a writing instructor. I think he still loves UO, he is just very disappointed by its current administration.
In his writing he sounds frustrated by the change that has happened and, for him, his best recourse is to write about it because that is what he does best.
You say that UO has changed. Who is to say that it cannot change again?
Ducksinarow Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 8:39 am

Apparently every wrestling fan in the state has been told to comment here. I like how many people keyed in on my comment about it promoting violence and aggression and deny it but then one spoke of how the MMA events are full of NCAA wrestlers. Football does have violence, but the essence of the sport is not focused on that. The only real futures for wrestling after college are the extremely violent MMA type events or they can beef up, grow their hair out and strive for WWE or WWF. At least in pro wrestling they wouldn’t have to worry about starving themselves and spitting to make weight.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 9:31 am

2006 National participation totals from the National High School Federation

Participants-Boys

1. Football - 11-player 1,071,775

2. Basketball 546,335

3. Track and Field - Outdoor 533,985

4. Baseball 470,671

5. Soccer 358,935

6. Wrestling 251,534

7. Cross Country 208,303

8. Golf 161,284

9. Tennis 153,006

10. Swimming and Diving 107,468

TEN MOST POPULAR GIRLS PROGRAMS

Participants

1. Basketball 452,929

2. Track and Field - Outdoor 439,200

3. Volleyball 390,034

4. Softball - Fast Pitch 369,094

5. Soccer 321,555

6. Cross Country 175,954

7. Tennis 173,753

8. Swimming and Diving 147,413

9. Competitive Spirit Squads 98,570

10. Golf 64,195
Robin Pilger Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 9:38 am

TheFangjack said, “Many more Oregonians play soccer, swim and play ultimate than wrestle, I wager. ”

I’ll take that bet. The only way it would be true is if you meant all of them added together (with soccer being only marginally more popular according to the NFHS).

But that’s okay. We wrestlers are used to “experts” discounting our sport without the facts.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 9:40 am

Fastest Growing Sports Nationally 2006

Competitive spirit squads gained the most female participants in 2005-06 with 14,154, followed by outdoor track and field with 11,002, indoor track and field with 6,265 and cross country with 5,504.

Eleven-player football gained the most participants among boys sports in 2005-06 with 26,281, followed by outdoor track and field with 17,282, baseball with 10,954 and wrestling with 8,525.

As we all can see wrestling was the fourth fastest growing boys sport nationally in 2006. This is very far away from the death of sport as some have posted here. This does not include the growth of Women’s wrestling which is now an Olympic Sport. Pacific University in Oregon has a large women’s wrestling team as does Simon Frazer University in B.C.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 9:51 am

2006-07 National High School Wrestling Participation

Boys Wrestling # Schools: 9,445 ; Boys 257,246

Girls Wrestling # of Schools: 1,227 ; Girls 5,048
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 am

2006 Oregon High School Sports Participation
Boys

1. Football 195 schools; 13,370 boys
2. Track & Field 262 schools; 8,353 boys
3. Basketball 286 schools; 7,681 boys
4. Baseball 228 schools; 6,407 boys
5. Soccer 178 schools; 5,554 boys
6. Wrestling 197 schools; 5,023 boys
7. Cross-Country 203 schools; 2,943 boys
8. Golf 286 schools; 2,067 boys
Jesse Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 10:33 am

Would the wrestlers accept going back to Oregon? IMO absolutely. Even in states like Iowa, where I’m from and wrestled all my life, the wrestlers always are looking over their backs. Champion wrestling programs will continually get overlooked for their accomplishments compared to their schools most mediocre/poor basketball and football teams.

Comparing sports by fan popularity is an effort in futility. BB and FB are forever going to be the cash cows that will fill stadiums and attract the sponsorship dollars. By that same line of thinking then all sports should be done away with and only BB and FB should remain. Now that we are left with only two sports for our youth to chose from lets widdle the prospects a little further. Most athletes aren’t going to be able to fit the bill for the usual list physical requirements for these two sports: being really tall, big, fast, strong, dunk, throw a 50 yard bomb, etc.

Now that most of our youth really aren’t cut out for BB and FB, where else can they turn? I think elimating athletics in general is a very bad idea because while sports are different in how they are played, each teach very valuable life lessons to participants. Not everyone wants to be a LeBron James or Tom Brady, but you can’t limit the heroes for other sports at their highest level either, which in many cases only goes as high as collegiate or Olympic level, not pro. This country and many of its educational institutions are founded on equal opportunity, but AD’s and many out there would rather limit and restrict whats available to student athletes just because its not their cup of tea.
Jay Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 10:43 am

Jay, here.

Real quickly, I just wanted all of the visitors to this blog to know that this is not all we do.

If you’re a Duck fan, check out DuckSportsNews.com. It’s our aggregate sports news service for the Ducks.

I know it’s a bit of a shameless plug, but I’m not going to assume that everyone knows about it.

And thanks again for all the great comments.

If someone knows Mr. Copperman, it would be great to hear from him too.

Jay
DSN
Alex C Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 11:10 am

Jay-

Interesting peice. But what if wrestling were reinstated at the UofO? Is that not the right decision to be made? Would that not fix the atrocity that has taken place? I mean sure there are a lot of poeple in the wrestling community upset about the current happenings in Eugene (and Tempe) but the main focus is the loss of oppportunities for current and future atheletes alike. The first order of business is to save the programs we can, inuslate other fledgling ones, and start new teams at the division 1 and other collegiate levels. Sure there may be some bad blood, but give me one place in this country where everyone gets along all the time perefectly. You can not, becaue this is America and you have the right to be free thinking and voive those thoughts. But through this way of life most problems can be solved and for the benefits of all those involved. We should use this way of life to our benefit and to correct the current situation at UofO. As to the points previously brought up by Mr. Cooperman and yourself, they need to be addressed by more than just the wrestling community. The UofO does appear to have lost its way as an institution of higher learning, but how does not reinstating the wresling team solve any of those problems. If anything having such fine, young, hardworking, dedicated Oregon, youth on campus should only help this lost university find itself again by having example to draw fom everyday right on its own campus. I hope to see this program and ASU reinstated, not just for my own benefit, but for all those young wrestlers out there in the future who will be looking to compete to win an NCAA Champioship someday. I do appreciate you keeping this matter in the media, as the more we talk about the situation the more action taht will follow from it!

Thanks,

Alex Clemsen
Richard Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 11:35 am

Ducksinarow,

I’m sorry but your comments are some of the most uneducated comments I’ve read.

The essense of football is to NOT be violent? Are you kidding me? The whole purpose of the sport is to be violent by tackling the person with the ball as hard as you can.

Extremely violent MMA? Are you kidding yet again? Its considered less violent than football.

Please, if you’re going to comment, at least have some educated responses.
jweydert Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 11:35 am

This is indeed an interesting viewpoint re: why would wrestling want to be re-instated at UO? The answer is simple: wrestlers thrive from adversity - it’s what separates the men from the boys (and the wrestlers from basketball players:). Wrestlers can handle crappy facilities, fair-weather fans, laize-faire ADs; the only thing they can’t handle is the lack of opportunity to compete. /jw
Mike Johnson Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 11:38 am

Let me make my first point clear.

I AM NOT A WRESTLING FAN. NEVER WAS, MOST LIKELY NEVER WILL BE.

HOWEVER, the sport should NOT BE CUT. Anybody who is glad, or agree’s with the elimination is ignorant at the very least.
I wonder how Pat Kilkenny feels? I bet he doesn’t care, you know why? because he has money. But we all know that money doesn’t buy courage because this man is a coward. GRADUATE FROM COLLEGE YOU TOOL.

Every sport has different aspects to it, these all translate to every day life. This is IMPORTANT TO BUILD A STRONG YOUTH.

I am sick and tired of hearing people celibrate the downfall of wrestling because it the downfall does not exist. Even if the NCAA bans wrestling all together eventually these guys will move the sport to a different org. and it will continue to grow.
Wrestling will never die. Neither will mens swimming, mens tennis, mens lacrosse, mens chess, mens cheerleading, men’s whatever.
WNBA on the other hand….
Brian Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 12:20 pm

Ducksinarow,

The vast majority of collegiate athletes don’t turn into pro athletes. To say “The only real futures for wrestling after college are the extremely violent MMA type events ” is beyond ignorant. Come on, do you really believe that? My high school and college wrestling coaches were teachers, not fighters. I think John Irving has made a pretty good career as a writer. I wrestled, but wouldn’t want anything to do with MMA. MMA is great for certain wrestlers, but it’s not for all wrestlers. There are other career choices one can make while attending college.
Richard Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 12:25 pm

You give us some run down building and a place for the mats and wrestlers will thrive. I could very easily show you the wrestling room, our Oregon Middle School National wrestling team practiced in Illinois a couple of months ago.

The mats were older than me, the building looked like some run down crack house, but the kids never complained. They put their gear on and practiced for 2hrs. Then came home with a 4th place finish in the nation.

Wrestling has never been about glitz and glamour. Just give us a room, some mats and a UO singlet to compete in. That’s all we ask. We’ll do the rest.
truth seeker Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Copperman is a professor/instructor at the University. I’m sure peole can find him. It’s easy to see whay he is in the spot he is professionally. he worked his ass off wrestling and I ma sure attacks his career the same way.
Hank Hosfield Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm

Interesting question, Jay.

Of course wrestling would choose to return at Oregon as a varsity sport. This is a n0-brainer, really, for wrestlers and wrestling fans.

The demise of wrestling at Oregon is devastating for the sport. The loss of wrestling opportunity is detrimental to the youth of our state. Wrestling is a great sport that fully embraces the educational mission of the university. The UO is poorer for its absence.

All of these reasons trump lingering resentment or misgivings about the correctly-identified changing culture of money within the UO Athletic Department and big-time college athletics.

While I don’t expect wrestling to change the politics or values within the Casanova Center, I don’t see how the return of wrestling would be in conflict. Student athletes are not the employees of the UO. They attend the UO to gain education. They owe no particular loyalty to administrators. They don’t have to be on good terms with Kilkenny or Frohnmayer. (Besides, barring judicial intervention, we know those guys will both be long gone before wrestling ever returns at Oregon.) Lingering bad blood means little. If anything, it might spur the wrestlers to work even harder.

But there still remains a larger question, right, Jay? You artfully set up this what-if scenario to challenge the integrity of the wrestling community’s criticisms of the UO. Okay, I’ll bite. I don’t think my desire to reinstate wrestling (for all of the good it offers) negates the truth of many of the negative observations that the wrestling community has voiced about the UO since they blindsided our sport and then stonewalled and prevaricated like mother-you-know-whats. And, for what it’s worth, I share a lot of Michael Copperman’s views. Furthermore, I don’t think I’m selling out any of my values by advocating for the return of wrestling. I see it as speaking out for something good. If the UO wants to correct their mistake, I’m all for it.

I believe positive change is possible. Blame it on the wrestler in me.
Brian Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 1:20 pm

Jay,

“Have you ever heard of a school turning down over 2.5 million dollars in donations? Have you ever heard of a school saying no to a facility that they don’t have to pay for? There is not a single reason why wrestling at Oregon needs to go. The wrestling community is commited to being self funded. The only thing the wrestling people ask of Oregon is to be called Ducks, and to represent the school. Is that asking too much?” was my writing awhile back. How is that digracing the U of O? It’s a simple fact. You are the one that said there are people in the Casanova center who think wrestling is gross. That is an insult to us, so why shouldn’t the wrestling supporters be pissed when we hear things like that?
Jay Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Brian -

I know those were your words. And I’m not suggesting that those words are disgraceful to the U of O. As you wrote, I am presenting them as factual evidence of Oregon’s fiscal irresponsibility, as seen from the wrestling perspective.

Actually, the people who described wrestling as “gross” did not come from inside the Cas Center.

And I know wrestling supporters are extremely ticked off. And that’s my question: if wrestling was reinstated, would all of that resentment vanish, or would it linger.

Brian, I’d like to hear from the wrestling supporter you says, “Forget the U of O. We don’t want to go back there.”

Does that wrestling supporter exist?

Jay
DSN
Richard Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 2:30 pm

I honestly don’t think there is one supporter that says “forget the UO. We don’t want to go back there.”

Of course they want to be there or they wouldn’t be fighting for their right to come back in the first place.

The supporters aren’t mad at UO itself. theyare mad at the current admins who have turned it into this wrestling versus everyone else sort of deal. And yes they are doing this. I hear stories of UO admins telling potential business people that in order to do business with UO, they specifically state that they can not be wrestling supporters or they can take their business elsewhere. All we’ve done is try and fight for what we believe in and this is what we get in return.

These same admins threatened the OSAA and said if they let the Save Oregon Wrestling people put out donation jars at the state wrestling tournament, they’d be forever banned from holding HS sporting events at UO.

So, while these UO admins continue to take this fight personal and try their best to shut us down, we continue to fight because that’s all we know how to do. Wrestlers are taught to never quit while staring in the face of adversity. This is one of those battles in which we’ll never quit.
Hank Hosfield Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 3:16 pm

Jay, I think very few wrestling people would turn down reinstatement of any wrestling program, no matter how snake-bit or disgusted they may feel about past poor treatment.

I may never feel good about my alma mater again–not simply because they cut my sport–but because of the way they did it and the disturbing down-trending of what I used to believe were the UO’s core values. New leadership may change this, but almost all of the great love I formerly held for Ducks is tainted, and every day I’m sadly becoming more reconciled to the emerging reality that the UO is heading in a new direction that I find somewhat stomach-turning. Likewise, I’ll probably never feel any new fondness for the anyone in the administration that created this situation.

But the reinstatement of wrestling is not about me or how I feel about the UO. It’s about future athletic opportunity and education for the youth of our state. I’ll always be for that.
fatfreddy Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 3:56 pm

NEWS FLASH!!!!

UO wrestling budget has been found.

Bellotti’s base salary will remain $150,000 per year. However, the minimum guaranteed salary he receives from supplemental sources and incentivies will increase from $750,000 to $1,127,500. When including an estimated $800,000 bonus from the sale of season tickets, his estimated salary for the 2007 season reached just over $1.9 million.
Ducksinarow Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 5:06 pm

Plain and simple, the only reason that wrestling has had any kind of growth in the last few years is because of the popularity of MMA events and the saturation of those events in our media. Teenage boys watch the events on TV and want to be tough guys. Honestly, I have been playing devils advocate a bit, mainly trying to rile up the comments. But truthfully, I went to UO and never even knew we had a wrestling team. I never originally defended football and claimed it wasn’t violent, I just stated that wrestling inherently is an aggressive sport and I believe that most youth who get into it today are doing so based on their fantasies of becoming the next Chuck ‘the iceman’ Lidell. Just the same as many college students nowadays want to be the next professional poker playing phenomenon.
Richard Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 5:24 pm

Talk about excess. This is the problem with college athletics.
Jay Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 6:08 pm

Jay, here.

Michael Copperman has posted a response. You can find it here:

Copperman: I Love Oregon & How I Believe It Should Be

So, you can continue to discuss things here or move them over there.

Thanks.
Jay
DSN
Richard Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 6:25 pm

Ducksinarow,

Sorry but you’re wrong again and I’m going to ask you to prove it.

It’ll take you awhile because I know it to be wrong.

The facts are that wrestling numbers have been growing for quite some time. Long before what you call the “saturation” of MMA.

Of course there are a small few who may get into it because of that, but most don’t. I can honestly say none of the kids on my team got into wrestling because of MMA.

But yet again, your post reeks of another uneducated response about the subject.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 7:14 pm

Wrestling is a highly technical sport which requires a very educated spectator. Fan support has been lower on the West coast than in the East and Mid-west. In my youth I have competed before many full houses–from East Stroudsburg State University (PA) to my college Illinois State University. Promotion was effective–the cheerleaders and freshmen wrestlers would run the victory bell to every college dorm where it would ring one hour to 15 minutes before every home match–until the fans came out to the Old South Gym–we soon had to move our matches to the larger capacity Horton Field House.
Now here in Oregon, I get regular e-mail updates from Iowa State University’s wrestling coach–a match by match account of every event–and I didn’t even attend Iowa State University! Here is the latest e-mail I received from St. Louis:

ARCH MAT-NESS: NCAA WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIPS
A ROUSING SUCCESS

The NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships returned to St. Louis March 20-22, as Iowa took home its 21st team title on the mats at Scottrade Center. The building was buzzing. 94,190 wrestling fans attended the event’s six sessions - good for the third-highest attendance figure in the 78-year history of the Championships, behind the 2000 and 2005 events, both also held in St. Louis. It was the fourth time the Sports Commission and the University of Missouri have hosted the event this decade, and the fifth is right around the corner in 2009. Speaking of which, all-session tickets for the 2009 Championships, March 19-21, are on sale now. To order tickets, call 866-646-8849 (toll free) or 314-241-1888 (in St. Louis); log on to http://www.ticketmaster.com; or click here for more details. VIP packages, featuring great food and prime seating in the Scottrade Club, are also available. For more information, contact Karli Juenger at 314-206-7388. For the latest on the 2009 Wrestling Championships visit http://www.stlsports.org/wrestling or NCAA.com.
See ya Duck Fans in St. Louis-just a short distance from my home in La Pine, OR
Jason Cook Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 7:20 pm

I appreciate your article. I would respond with this comment. The UO has no need to cut programs for finacial reasons, as they have some enormous finacial benefits with Nike. The reason they choose to cut wrestling instead of adding a sport to give more females opportunities is disgusting.

I am a former college wrestler and nothing makes me more sad than programs being dropped. I am also the son of a women’s gymnastics coach and have seen the benefits of female athletics. I don’t understand how female athletes aren’t up in arms about men’s programs being cut instead of women’s programs benig added.

OU obviously has either not seen the benefits of sports like wrestling and gymnastics, or just does not care.

Makes me sick.
Brian Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 8:00 pm

Ducksinarow,

First you said “The archaic sport of wrestling is a dying breed” Now you admit it is growing. Which is it?
Richard Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm

He could be a politician with all the flop flopping. Or maybe just an AD at UO.
Mike Copperman Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 8:34 pm

Just a couple thoughts on this thread that relate to various responses to the piece in the Weekly.

One poster says:

“I realize this is a bit off topic but I get so sick of comments about how glitzy the athletic department is while classrooms paint peels. If you want more money do what the AD does and go get it.”

There’s a couple issues here. On the one hand, the poster is right: the money raised for the athletic department is indeed for athletics. Of course, there would be no ‘athletic department’ if there was no university, and the mission of the university is education. The money for that education comes from the state and federal government, and from students who pay to go to school. I guess the poster is saying, then, that the only way to fund education is to get donors to give money for education the same way they’ll give money to get a box at the football game?

The comparison isn’t meant to suggest that the money out there is the ’same’. It’s to suggest there might be some sort of misplaced set of priorities, something…off, when a school has mediocre academic facilities and exalted athletic ones. In this particular piece, which is a personal essay, I was describing the ‘feel’ of today’s university, and the sense that something was amiss.

Another poster said:

“Sure there are drunk people at football games. Four hours on hard benches with 15 minutes of action interspersed, some can’t handle without the booze. A few seasons ago drunk OSU fans at Autzen mimicked and made fun of an elderly lady as she struggled up the stadium steps. But OSU has wrestling? Too good for OSU also? OSU cut track and field, and has no lacrosse. Are those sports too good for OSU?”

This logic is too troubled not to have some fun with; of course, the start to the poor parallel is that the incident takes place at Autzen, OSU or UO fans aside. What’s funnier is that the poster doesn’t seem to understand the point: the culture of today’s sports, as exemplified by fan behavior ( Kevin Love et al) at football and basketball games, is out of line. That goes for the UO or OSU or whatever Division I school we might talk about. These schools buy into the mythic “Flutie Effect,” the idea that the best way to advertise a school is to do with football or basketball success. Nobody questions what the effect is on what sort of students you get– people whose first criteria is how good a football team the UO has tend, to stereotype and over-generalize, to care about the wrong things. When I took this eleven-year old kid who has no Father to the football game this Fall, I did so because he likes Football and because I thought the game would be exciting, that watching the team play well, watching the competition, would be a good experience. Instead, he learned that to be an Oregon fan meant to drink yourself to belligerent incoherence, to drop a lot of f-bombs, to call the quarterback a nigger, and to flip the bird to someone who asked you tone it down a little. My point is that behavior like that, people like that, are not what the UO should stand for, but are what it’s choosing today.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 8:36 pm

MMA may inspire some young men and women to turn out for high school and middle school wrestling. In 1960 I saw Terry McCann, 1960 Olympic Champion at 125.5 pounds doing the Wheaties commercials on TV. After the 3rd time I saw him lifting the Iranian horizontally to Terry’s chin and leg reaping him in the air to his back, I turned to my Dad and said “When I get to high school I am going out for wrestling and my brothers are never going to pick on me again!” I did and my brothers never picked on me again.
However, the growth of wrestling is in fact due to additional high schools adding wrestling in places like Texas and Alabama. When high schools and middle schools add a sport, participation goes way up.
The NCAA is moving the Division II and Division III National Championships to a sports festival format in Houston with Track, Wrestling and some other sports. This is risky for the NCAA as currently those Div 2 and 3 National Championships are packed in the Mid-West. One of the NCAA’s reported goals is to continue the increase of wrestling participation in states like Texas. A side note–Ducks1Fan taught me to investigate Texas. Thank you Ducks#1Fan.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 9:54 pm

I enjoyed Ducksinarow’s comment about promoting violence because he gets me to thinking, questioning, etc. Here’s what I am reminded of: 9/11. An Eastern’s Intercollegiate 191 pound Wrestling Champion who is also a National level Judo Wrestling competitor is a leader in taking on the terrorists who plan to fly a jet plane into the USA Capitol. Instead, it crashes in a PA field, killing no one on the ground except the plane occupants–Ironically PA is one of the nations strongest wrestling states at the High school, NAIA, NCAAI, NCAAII, & NCAAIII levels.

Now when I get on any plane, I remember this young hero, and I look around for another califlower ear to assist me if needed to take on some terrorist during my flight. Controlled aggression in sport is a good thing, it breeds and fertilizes courage. Courage is what we need in a softening culture.
Mr. Nelson Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 10:42 pm

Another reply to Ducksinarow:

“Apparently every wrestling fan in the state has been told to comment here. I like how many people keyed in on my comment about it promoting violence and aggression and deny it but then one spoke of how the MMA events are full of NCAA wrestlers. Football does have violence, but the essence of the sport is not focused on that. The only real futures for wrestling after college are the extremely violent MMA type events or they can beef up, grow their hair out and strive for WWE or WWF. At least in pro wrestling they wouldn’t have to worry about starving themselves and spitting to make weight.”

1. I am not from the great state of Oregon, but my wife is so I feel like I can comment as well. One day our children my be ducks so I care greatly.

2. Football is much more violent than wrestling. As a man who has coached both high school football and high school wrestling I can say that in no way do I want my kids playing football. First, the basics: More kids get sent to the emergency room for football related injuries that wrestling. Second, in football, it is not uncommon for a 225 pound linebacker leveling a 180 pound receiver/back. No weight classes to keep smaller kids and larger kids from colliding into each other. Lastly, never heard a wrestling team chant about taking people out of a game, have you?

3. I am confused with the equation Wrestling = MMA. Sure there are a number of former wrestlers who make some money in the MMA circuit. However, there are also a number of men and women who got their start from karate, Tae Kwon Do and Judo. Are you going suggest we close down Mr. Miagi’s place?

4. For 99% of all wrestlers, their career either ends after high school or college graduation. The tools I learned in wrestling most certainly are used in my professional life today: Tenacity, Hard work, Self-discipline, etc… are all things I learned on the wrestling mat. I have done many sports as a child and as an adult and none come close to preparing me for the real world like wrestling has….and I have never stepped foot in a cage.
duck1fan Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm

Curtis I wish I could say that my brothers never messed with me because I wrestled but all four of us wrestled so they still knocked me around. But it was fun, and toughen me up at the same time. It’s good to hear that even the southern states are starting to bring wrestling into there schools. It’s really funny to hear uneducated people talk about there perspective on the lack of crowd support and need for wrestling! I have faith that it is a matter of time when it makes a come back. Hopefully the next time around we’ll hire a more qualified coach which will motivate the cream of the crop out of highschool to come to Duck country and develop there talent even more. Which will create such a powerhouse that it will be an untouchable program for any athletic director that comes through. Look how quick Coach Johnson turned around Oregon States program before Coach Wells ran in back into the ground.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 10:59 pm

Northern and Southern National Boys Sport Participation:

If you were to take the USA and divide it into Northern States and Southern States you would find that wrestling participation in the Northern states would be the 4th most popular boys sport–very close to basketball in participation numbers.
Hank Hosfield Says:

May 22nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm

Yeah, Curt, I was thinking along similar lines recently when I read about the 10-year anniversary of the Thurston shootings, and recalled that it was a wrestler and a substitute teacher with a wrestling background that piled
on and disarmed Kip Kinkel when he tried to reload. Wrestlers seem to get themselves caught up in more than their share of such heroics. In fact, it’s so disproportionate that it’s becoming almost cliche’. Of course, courage comes in all shapes and sizes, but outside of wrestling rooms it seems to be in ever scarcer supply.
Jesse Says:

May 23rd, 2008 at 8:53 am

First I would like to address Ducksinarow. Not every wrestler goes onto MMA, that would be like saying that every BB or FB players is in the NFL or NBA. For most MMA holds absolutely no interest to them as a career once they finish wrestling. As for professional wrestling(sic) many of those jokers are way to big to have wrestled in school. Sure there are ones who have successful wrestling backgrounds like Angle and Lesnar, who’s now MMA. Pro wrestling is more and more about entertainment and less about “wrestling” compared to the days of old 30 or better years ago.

For wrestling being such a violent sport I see a lot fewer HS, college, or even Olympic wrestlers showing up in the weekly police blotters in my area compared to BB and especially FB.

I’ll second the posts about having wrestlers around when stuff goes down. I’ve been a police officer for 10 years in a city in IA, our force is roughly 200 officers. In my experiece I can testify that the officers who have wrestling backgrounds are much better overall in physical confrontations with suspects than those without. These can be attributed to many reasons the most obvious is because these officers are not afraid of getting dirty and going hands on with an individual, even one who’s much larger/stronger than them. You cannot be shy about physical contact when placing handcuffs on a person, because it usually goes to sh*t when they realize they are going to jail. These officers have a lot of confidence and grit about them that they won’t lose to this bad guy, which is a must have attitude in police work. Overall they are much more likely to be in better physical shape than the average officer because of years of disciplined workouts and dieting. Lastly these officers overall are less likely to be injured during a scuffle with a bad guy because of their experiences. The bad guy also will be less than likely to have been beaten black and blue since wrestlers can contort people into VERY uncomfortable positions without leaving a single mark……ala saving the dept. and community brutality complaints/lawsuits.
neezy3 Says:

May 23rd, 2008 at 12:19 pm

You should read the book Beer and Circus by Murray Sperber, its all about big time athletics and how it affects academics in undergraduate education… Very interesting read check it out…
Hank Hosfield Says:

May 23rd, 2008 at 2:45 pm

Thanks for the book tip, Neezy. Beer and Circus is an updated version of Sperber’s 1990 book, College Sports Inc., which should be required reading for everyone in college administration. I wonder if you can find a copy of it in the Casanova Center? Of course, even more has changed since Beer and Circus came out in 2000, but the overriding mechanisms and the policies Sperber details are still very much in place.
Brian Says:

May 23rd, 2008 at 3:09 pm

ASU is back from the grave.http://thesundevils.cstv.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/052308aaa.html The sport was saved. How about that?
Western Man Says:

May 24th, 2008 at 7:03 am

Damn right on ASU. Now it is time for their fellow Pac 10 ream to the north to do what is right and honorable and bring the program back to Eugene. Lisa Love swallowed her pride down in Tempe, worked with some people to make a tough situation solvable and now we have wrestling back after 10 days at ASU. I wonder if Denny Erickson and several of his assistant coaches lent their vocal support to the cause. They have been known to attend quite a few matches. Would Mike B do the same???
Richard Says:

May 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am

I’ve heard Bellotti has voiced his displeasure about wrestling being cut, but I’m sure he’s afraid to rock the boat, so I bet his voice isn’t too loud.

Erickson was a big supporter of wrestling while at OSU.
Western Man Says:

May 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

Bellotti may be the next AD.His longtime asst coach Joe Shaffield wrestled at UO.
John Hauge Says:

May 24th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

jay,

very nice article. it’s been a vast number of years since i did any wrestling. it was one of the semi mandatory things they made us kids, boys, do here in the california school system long ago. it is one of, if not the hardest sport to compete. grueling would be an apt description. surely, the football department makes enough money to fund a wrestling program. and maybe a few gallons of paint as well.
Curtis Sexton Says:

May 24th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

All Oregon has to do is lose a couple of games to teams with a Greg Gibson UO , or Jess Lewis OSU, or Curley Culp ASU, and they will speak out consistently and loudly. All three were multiple All-American wrestlers and outstanding football athletes. Culp and Lewis played on Sundays–Culp of many years.
Richard Says:

May 24th, 2008 at 5:20 pm

You mention Gerg Gibson. Its funny because I would bet that the common UO fan wouldn’t even know that the Ducks greatest athlete of all time was Greg Gibson.

Don’t believe me. Take a read.

University of Oregon, United States Marine Corps
Greg Gibson. . .Oregon All-America. . . PAC-10 Wrestler of Year in 1976. . . 1977 USA Wrestling National Freestyle Heavyweight Champion. . . 1980 Greco-Roman World Cup Gold Medal. . . Greco-Roman Silver Medal at the 1984 Summer Olympic Games. . .22 Armed Forces Wrestling Titles. . .Born November 20, 1953, in Redding, California . . .Retired Master Sergeant (USMC) …

Many athletes rise to glory only to fade overnight, but few can be feared and respected over the course of four decades.

Greg Gibson was born on November 20, 1953, in Redding, CA. In high school, Gibson excelled at football and wrestling. After High School Gibson attended Shasta College where he once again dominated both sports and was subsequently noticed by the coaches at The University of Oregon.

He has been called the “most versatile wrestler anywhere, ever” since his collegiate days at Oregon, but he was a pretty amazing football player. He started two seasons at defensive tackle for the Ducks, and though he dreamed of being a professional football player, life led him to wrestling.

Gibson may have been too small as NFL defensive lineman, but his physical stature was perfect as a heavyweight on the wrestling mat. In 1975, he won the PAC-10 Conference title, carrying Oregon to its first-ever team crown, and finished second in successive NCAA Championships, earning All-American Honors each year.

Gibson was named the PAC-10 Wrestler of Year in 1976 and won the 1977 USA Wrestling National Freestyle Heavyweight Championship.

After college Gibson tried out with the National Football League’s Seattle Seahawks, San Francisco 49er’s, and Philadelphia Eagles. In 1978, Gibson enlisted in the United States Marine Corps. While at Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, his athletic prowess made him the talk of the base when he broke the time record for completing the famous Marine Corps obstacle course.

After completing corrections specialist school, Gibson was stationed at Marine Corps Base Quantico where he made the All-Marine wrestling team.

As a Marine, Gibson became the first American to win a gold medal at the 1980 Greco-Roman World Cup Wrestling Tournament in Trellborg, Sweden. Gibson dominated the tournament by pinning everyone he faced including the world champion. He went on to capture two more World Cup Greco-Roman Titles in 1984 and 1985.

Between 1981 and 1984, Gibson became one of the most dominant wrestlers in the world, medaling ten times at four International Championships in both Freestyle and Greco-Roman. In 1982, Gibson became the first wrestler to medal in all three wrestling styles when he captured the gold at the Sombo World Cup Tournament. In 1983, Gibson captured the freestyle gold medal at the Pan-American Games and was crowned the Freestyle and Greco-Roman Champion at the World Military Wrestling Championship in France.

Gibson’s incredible talent as a wrestler reached an apex when he won the Greco-Roman Silver Medal at the 1984 Summer Olympic Games in Los Angeles, California.

Following his stellar performance at the Olympics, Gibson finished the 1985 season winning the USA Freestyle and Greco-Roman National Championships. In addition, he placed second at the World Greco-Roman Championship, and won his third gold medal at the Greco-Roman World Cup Tournament.

After the 1985 season, Gibson coached the Marine Corps Wrestling Team and also competed for at the Armed Forces Championships.

During Operation Dessert Storm, Gibson deployed as a corrections specialist to Saudi Arabia to help build facilities for U.S. Forces.

After returning from the war, he continued to assist and wrestler for the Marine Corps Wrestling team.

Gibson dominated Armed Forces wrestling, capturing the Armed Forces Wrestling title an unprecedented 22 times in both freestyle and Greco-Roman. In 2001, Gibson won the silver medal during his final career match, launching the Marines to claim their first ever team championship. The 48-year-old Marine showed the heart of a champion as he pinned his Army opponent who was almost half his age.

Throughout his military career, Greg Gibson worked the Marine Corps Recruiting Command making appearances and promoting the Marine Corps proudly. He was named the Marine Corps Athlete of the Year a record three times and was named the Armed Forces Athlete of the Year in 1981.

In May 2003, Greg Gibson retired from the Marine Corps as a Master Sergeant and currently resides in Fontana, California.
Hank Hosfield Says:

May 25th, 2008 at 7:07 am

Greg Gibson was cartoonishly sculpted like a super-hero, at 6′3″, 235, with a 31″ waist, zero fat and a few extra helpings of striated muscle that was as all-business as his intimidating, stoic glare. He probably won a lot of his matches at weigh-in. He was legendary at weigh-in.

I think Gibson actually led the Ducks in tackles both years he played from his DT position.

I heard he shattered the Marine obstacle course record by 15 seconds.

Jay, you might want to make this a separate topic for discussion–greatest all-around Oregon athlete. Greg Gibson certainly belongs in the discussion.

But throughout UO sports history there have been many other stellar multi-sport athletes–and even other similarly scary dudes (say hello to Igor Olshansky). Ronnie Lee had coaches from four different sports drooling over his professional potential. Yet in an epic practicum PE class decathlon battle, the ultra-competitive Lee was stunningly bested by Duane Stutzman, another All-American wrestler. What do you do with Jordan Kent? Chris Miller? Mel Renfro? It’s hard to compare different sports and eras.

It’s even harder to compare wrestling to the ball sports. But as pure physical specimens go, Gibson is in his own select uber-species.

I recall reading in some wrestling publication some years ago a feature about America’s greatest wrestlers, and many coaches and athletes considered Gibson our most complete wrestler–although Dave Schultz also got a lot of votes. But just to be one of the best wrestlers in the world for as long as Gibson competed (elite wrestling careers seldom last ten years, let alone span decades) make him one of Oregon’s most outstanding athletes. And anybody who got to see the great Larry Bielenberg and Greg Gibson clash recognizes that those guys had the goods.
Brian Says:

May 25th, 2008 at 9:36 am

I watched Greg Gibson wrestle in the 84 trials in Iowa City. I was going to be a sophomore in college. I was down on the floor while he was warming up. What an athlete. I had never been to Oregon at that point in my life, but wondered what they fed guys out there. I believe he lost to Lou Banach in freestyle, but made the Greco team. Lou Banach took home the gold that year. That same trials I got to watch Lee Kemp wrestle Dave Schultz. Schultz won a close one, and later took home the gold. What a weekend that was.
Richard Says:

May 25th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

What’s even more ironic is that in the same breath that Kilkenny cut the program, Gibson is elected to the Wrestling HOF.
Hank Hosfield Says:

May 25th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

Same calendar year, but probably not same breath, Richard, as Fin missed my June 1 wedding to induct Gibson, and wrestling got axed officially on July 13. Does anyone know if the UO ever honored Gibson for his induction, or anything else?
Richard Says:

May 26th, 2008 at 10:30 am

You mean you didn’t postpone your wedding to go? LOL

Gibson’s honor was most likely having his picture taken down at the school and tossed in the nearest wastebasket.

Like I said, today’s UO fan doesn’t even have a clue who Gibson is, yet he is arguably the greatest athlete to ever go to school there. they are so saturated with football and b-ball, they consider Harrington the best ever. Then you show them Gibson’s credentials and they say “who’s he?”

What If…? Wrestling Reinstated At The University Of Oregon

May 21st, 2008

Fact #10: Athletics has compromised academics at the University of Oregon.

Fact #9: The University of Oregon has misplaced priorities.

Fact #8: The University of Oregon is indifferent to Oregonians.

Fact #7: University of Oregon fans are hateful. [Warning: graphic language.]

Fact #6: The University of Oregon is fiscally irresponsible.

Fact #5: University of Oregon Athletics Director Pat Kilkenny is not ethical.

Fact #4: University of Oregon Athletics Director Pat Kilkenny lacks integrity.

Fact #3: The University of Oregon is indifferent to its student population.

Fact #2: The University of Oregon lacks integrity.

Fact #1. The University of Oregon administration can not be trusted.

WRESTLING REINSTATED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF OREGON.

May 15, 2008.

wheaton4prez Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 1:28 pm

Samurhino Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

AG Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

TheFangjack Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pm

Not right Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 2:24 pm

jake Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 3:22 pm

Travis Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Travis Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:00 pm

Jay Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:03 pm

Jay Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm

Jay Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Travis Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:20 pm

Travis Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 4:44 pm

Richard Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 5:08 pm

Jay Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 5:22 pm

Richard Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 5:49 pm

Jim Brown Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Ducksinarow Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 6:18 pm

Alumni Wrestler Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

Ducksinarow Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 6:36 pm

Richard Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 6:58 pm

Brian Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Keel Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:10 pm

jake Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:44 pm

Your School.... Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:48 pm

jm Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:50 pm

Cal Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 8:52 pm

Kevin F Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 9:03 pm

duck1fan Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 9:03 pm

ISUwrestling Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 9:37 pm

fatfreddy Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 9:49 pm

dawg4life Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 10:26 pm

truth seeker Says:

May 21st, 2008 at 10:52 pm